I'm working on automating my layout, but i'm not quite clear on a few things.
I've made a setup with routes and tours, and it works alright, except i have two isses:
1. I can't get trains to shuttle (for instance to a route one way, then turn around, and go into a different route) - They seem to get confused, and trigger different tours or routes in my tour-automatic.
2. I cant seem to control which locomotives trigger which routes/tours in the tour-automatic.
So how do i control this? - and when is it recommended to use tours and when should i use routes? They seem to be able to do the same?
Kind regards
Hello Klippert,
Without knowing exactly what you want to do with your layout, this would be difficult to answer:
1. Do you want to turn specific locomotives around on specific routes? Or are these turn around routes available for all locomotives? The matrix can be used to limit which locomotives should use the routes. If a locomotive has more than one option (i.e. route) from a specific Locomotive field, confusion can result as to which route it should take. You can use virtual switches to tell a locomotive to take a specific route from a specific Locomotive field, including turn around routes.
2. As stated above, you can limit which locomotives trigger which routes through the matrix. Another option is to use profiles for the routes.
Routes are used from a locomotive field to another locomotive field. Tours can also be from one locomotive field to another locomotive field; in this case they are the same. But a tour can be made up of routes. The advantage of a tour made up of routes is that the locomotive will stop only when the next route is blocked, otherwise it will continue without stopping through to the next route.
This means if you have a tour(made up of routes) in the tour-automatic it will continue to the end of the tour without stopping if the way is clear.
If you use routes in your tour-automatic, these will be performed individually. The locomotive will stop at the end of each route even if the next route is clear.
At least this is what I have come to realize so far. I'm still a beginner myself ;)
I hope this makes it somewhat clearer.
Aloha,
Elliott
Hello Hwnel,
Thanks a lot for the answer. - It makes a bit of sense. :-) - particoularily that the main difference is the continous tours, opposed to the broken up routes.
The matrix i've also got an understanding of (i think)
I have the following layout: (pic 1)
and when i just in normal (not running tour-automatic) mode select start and endpoints it comes up with my tour, just as i would expect it. And it runs nicely too. (pic 2)
When i edit tour automatic (pic 3) and select the same start and end point, it won't let me select neither tours or routes between the points. And i just don't get it at all.. Any clues???
Kind regards
Hi,
the important information in pic 2 is what's highlighted in yellow: "1 tour found via navigator". WDP is pretty clever and can find tours that you haven't defined explicitly. The usual massages are "1 tour found" or "1 route found". These are then the tours and routes you have defined. In your case you selected either a start point or an end point or both where there is no route or tour in between. But you have once defined a route that is longer than you selected one or in other words the route that you want to run is part of an existing route. WDP found that and tells you that it found your desired path using the navigator.
So please define all of your routes and tours you need and enter all of them in the automatic. Then the automatic will also find the way.
Hello Klippert,
As Stefan has pointed out the highlighted yellow is the route or tour that is selected with the start and endpoints. If I understand correctly, in Pic 2 you have highlighted from track 1 to track 4 which works when you select without the tour automatic editor. You're having trouble highlighting the tour when in the tour-automatic editor window, correct?
My question, are you selecting the exact same points in both cases? Are you selecting the locomotive fields for start and endpoints? I have noticed that if I select the point before and the point after the locomotive fields at start and finish respectively, a tour/route can be found.
I've also noticed that the particular route in question is already in the tour-automatic editor. (see red highlights) Did you want to enter it twice?
@ Stefan:
Can a tour be entered more than once in the tour-automatic?
Good luck,
Elliott
Hi Elliott,
Zitat von: Hwnel in 01. Mai 2010, 22:44:45
@ Stefan:
Can a tour be entered more than once in the tour-automatic?
Yes - for example with different conditions and accordingly different follow up routes.
Zitat von: Stefan Lersch in 01. Mai 2010, 23:05:04
Hi Elliott,
Zitat von: Hwnel in 01. Mai 2010, 22:44:45
@ Stefan:
Can a tour be entered more than once in the tour-automatic?
Yes - for example with different conditions and accordingly different follow up routes.
Thanks Stefan,
Will make a note of it. :)
Aha! so routes and tours are actually bound to specific "coordinates" in the track layout?
I always figured that they were bound to a "feed back-segment" so if i have a lok number display taking 3 "spaces" it dosn't matter where i click in it, but i take it that it will find the route or tour, but only through the "navigator". Is that correctly understood?
Now with a risk of sounding a bit thick, here goes - because i could not make the tour select correctly no matter where i click.
picture 1 is route1 from trossingen track 1 to oberried entrance
picture 2 is route2 from oberried entrance to oberried track 1
picture 3 is the tour with highlighted route 1 and 2
i see that route 1 actually ends one "block" after the loc-number box, and route 2 actually starts one block before, is that a problem?
Or have you got any suggestion as to what on earth i'm doing wrong?
Many thanks in advance, and for the help so far :-)
Hello Klippert,
I see a problem with your tour screen. Did you set up the tour using the tour wizard or enter it manually? If you entered it manually, you cannot use multiple start contacts on the first row. Your start contact for this tour is 002. This is why the editor cannot find your selected tour because it starts with contact 001. Did you set up a tour from contact 001 to contact 029 (i.e. route 001>033 and route 033>029).
The best way to set up a tour is through the tour wizard.
Aloha,
Elliott
Hello,
Ah, i did use the wizard, but i probably modified it afterwards. So a tour can only have one startpoint?
How about multiple end points - is that an option?
Hi,
no, the start and the end have to be single points each.
To your questions above: it is even better if the field before the train number field is added to the route. This can only work of cause it that field and the train number field have the same return contact.
It doesn't matter where in a train number field you click. But the tours and routes should not be found by the navigator. This is not the default solution and gives you a hint that there is something wrong. Please use the ! in tours editor and in the routes editor. It will show you if and where errors are.
Hello - and thanks a bundle - this has been a great help already :)
Now im redoing all my tours and routes. So they only have one start and endpoint.
Then I have another question :-)
How would i go about making a route from one station to the other, where it just uses any free track at both stations?
I made it work by creating a route from the entrance to Trossingen, but then i can't make the train stop and wait at the stations, because everything is one big tour. How do i make that work out as intended in win-digipet?
Hello,
make routes from track 1 of station A to the signal in front of station B. Combine these routes to a tour. Define routes from the signal in front of station B to every track in station B.
Insert the tour in the automatic and insert all routes into station B as follow up routes for that tour.
Make the same with track 2 of station B and so on.
Then make the same beginning at station B to station C and so on and so on.
...I think i need to read the manual :P
Thanks very much for the advice. now i'm experimenting and we'll see if i can make it all work :)
Aha - now that works wonders. The follow up routes are really the missing link. Everything makes sense now. 8)
Except - I have a tour in my tour automatic, where the matrix says that only one loc is supposed to use that particoular tour, but it seems that wether i use matrix or "valid only for loc" any loc will happily take the route.
How can this be? Do i need to enable filtering somewhere?
Hello,
which one is it and can you show a screenshot of the conditions?
Hello,
Have you activated the matrix in the system settings. At the moment I can not remember the exact place and label used in the system settings.
Regards
Markus
Hello,
Yes, i've got the matrix set up alright (it is by default as far as i can see, under system settings and routes.)
I've done a workaround by selecting the "precondition" that loc 66 must be on C-n 13. that is the passenger train.
If i removed the "precondition", and do the matrix test, it works alright. But as soon as i start running the auto tours, it will take any train and send to Trossingen track 1. (And there are only one route with that destination.)
Hello Klippert,
If I understand you correctly, you only want Loc 66 to use this route? If so, the matrix that you have shown will allow all trains to use the route in the automatic except the ones in the red circle.
To enter a single locomotive, you need to click on the Lock indiv. Loc tab. (It will turn green) and enter the locomotive in the field below it.
Hope this helps you further.
Elliott
Hello,
you can enter the digital ID of the loco in one of the three fields "Lock indiv. Loc". Then click on the red field - it will turn green and show "Only for the following loc" or something similar. Then only this loco can use the route or tour.
Elliott was a bit faster...
Yes. Thanks very much. Though the problem is that wether i use the matrix or the "use only for this loc" it's still any loc thats able to go through. quite confusing. I'll try again and attach more screenshots. :)
(And thanks for your patience :)
Hello everybody - i have it working without the matrix, so it's mostly on principle now.
Anyhow here goes:
First i tried the matrix again, setting only trains longer than "long" to use this route.
(pic 1-3) - 3. picture shows that the route gets started anyway, by train BR-86 (address 1) - which was not shown in the matrix test.
Second, I tried the "only allow for" option. (pic4) where only loc 66 is allowed to use the tour. - now i figure this should work. but alas, as you can see in ... next post...
... pic 4 - BR 86 starts the tour anyway...
These two things i really don't get. Any clues? Is there a translation error in the matrix system? Have anybody gotten the matrix working in the english 2009.1 version? - It strikes me as odd, that the log only says that it's checking route, and then starts it... ?
now. finally, what works, is that i remove the matrix completely as shown in pic 5, and add a precondition (that loc 66 is on FB 13.)
And now it works. BR86 will wait for ever (until either track 2 or 3 is released, due to other routes.)
It also shows nicely in the log, that the tour does not get started, beacuse loc 66 is not on FB13.
Now, am I completely missing something, or is this actually quite wierd?
Hello Klippert,
Check your first line in the tour-automatic, I believe it starts from contact 13 also and is letting the BR 86 use the route.
Aloha,
Elliott
Hello,
That is unfortunately not the case. As you can see on "tour 18 starts anyway" it is saying Tour 18:13>1 (that is tour id18, where as the top one is tour id 13). Which is the one i'm trying to filter with the matrix.
I also checked my settings again (and attached the screenshot).
It's really getting to me.
Hello Klippert,
Hmmm...the only other thing I can think of is that the BR 86 is running with a profile which is overriding the matrix.
Can you try setting the tour-automatic to run without profile and see if it works then.
just a thought,
Elliott
Hello,
I neither have an idea what it could be. Can you provide us with a backup of your data? Please without die loco pictures (but with the loco data) and without the symbols.
Hello,
Ok. now i learned something new. I found a profile editor and read about profiles in the help.
Very cool and interesting feature.
Now i've disabled profiles altogether, and suddenly it works!!! - The trains stays put, and only drives off when it can complete the correct route.
Finally! A great thanks to you for your patience and help. It would seem that the conclusion of the experience is that if you use profiles, but don't create any profiles, matrix and "only valid for loc" won't work.
Cunning... :-)
Thanks again! :D