Hello.
I have tried for several days to solve this, but now I think I will have to ask for help, sorry :(
I am using IZNF (very useful/powerful feature, I like it a lot !!). But I am having problems.....
This time I have calibrated 3 different Motor Coaches for use with IZN. They are all smaller than 60cm long. 2 of them have axels in one end without feedback. So (for this purpose) I only run them with end 1 first, to be sure of good feedback from the front wheels. I calibrated their speeds and "Bremsekorrektur", all was done in a station-area where I have more than 3m straight track, symmetrical around the middle of the track. All were calibrated to stop exactly at the middle. In this track, all the 3 trains stop exactly at the middle every time, also when entering from the other side. So I am pretty sure they are correctly calibrated...?
So the problem is not at this station. But in all other tracks in all other stations, I have a problem to make them stop in the middle. Some places they all stop at different distances from the middle-point, and at different places on different tracks at the same station. I have tried to manipulate with changing the speed, and the length of IZNF, but I have not found any solution that works with all trains at the same time. It drives me crazy...
I have been very careful to measure all tracks and distances very careful, so I am pretty sure that they are correct. All feedbacks work 100%.
Can anyone offer some general help?
Best regards,
Per.
Helle Per,
have you turned off the deceleration of the decoders (set it to 1)? Have you set the deceleration in WDP to 18? Are the entries for length and the distance to the first axle correct in the database? If you are running AC you might have to enter the distance to the slider and not to the axle.
Could you please fill in your personal profile in the forum? I always forget what you are running.
Hello again, Stefan.
Yes, I have tried to set braking to off in decoders, not much difference.
Yes, it is 18 in all locos.
Yes, I have checked and re-checked the distances to first axle, they are correct.
Yes, I am running AC (Maerklin C-tracks). Distance to the slider does NOT matter, feedback is only from the wheels.
I also checked and re-checked all measured distances of tracks. All are correct.
I tried to fill in the profile now, will see if it works :D
Best regards,
Per.
Hello Per,
how big is the difference between the place they stop an where they should stop? Is the sequence of the feedback contacts correct in the iZNF?
Hello again.
I did not measure exactly (will check more today). But the middle of the train should stop at the middle of the platform. And so it does, always, on the track where I did all programming.
Other stations, I would guess +/- 0-15cm.
But they seem to always stop at the same place (although it is the wrong place). Of course, +/- a couple of cm is (for me) acceptable.
Regards,
Per.
Hi Per,
can you please provide me with a current backup? Please give me an example: a iZNF where they stop too late and the range. Do all of your trains stop there too late or only the above mentioned?
Hi again.
I did some more carefule measuring and testing right now. I have included a current backup.
All locos has been calibrated for speed. All locos has been calibrated for "Bremsekorrektur" using Fahrtsrasse no 435 from NesIn3v to Nes3f with "Stop am Signal". Signal is 20cm from the end of track. All locos has been adjusted to stop exactly at signal (buffers).
Using the same route, with "Stop in Bahnsteigmitte", results in:
Loc 69 stops +1cm from middle.
Loc 50 stops +1cm from middle.
Loc 61 stops +2cm from middle.
(These are for me acceptable values).
Next, I test the route 420 from Min0a to Str1b.
First I test with IZNf only with RMK 537,544 and 543. This may be a bit short, but the result is anyway:
Loc 69 stops +1cm from middle.
Loc 50 stops -1cm from middle.
Loc 61 stops +12cm from middle.
Lok 69 and 50 is acceptable, but lok 61 is not...
So I make the route longer, including 30,7cm without feedbakc, and RMK 479.
But the result is exactly the same.
As it is sunday, and I also have other things to do :) I did not have time for more tests now. I know that there also is big differences at station Sol, but this I have not had time to test more carefully yet.
Best regards,
Per.
Hi.
I am beginning to believe there must be something wrong when I calibrate each loco for speed and Bremskorrektur? All locos stop correctly at the calibarting-track, but almost everywhere else in my layout, most locos stop at different distances from the "correct" stop-point.
As they stop on the same spot in the calibrating-track, they should stop at the same spots in every track/station. What can I have been doing wrong..?
Best regards,
Per.
Hello Per,
on my layout I don't have such problems. Where I calibrate the Bremskorrektur the locos stop 3 mm exact. At other places they stop 1 cm exact which is fine for me.
I will now have a look at your backup.
Hello Per,
the middle of the train should stop 127 cm away from the beginning of the turnout #161. Where does it stop?
Hello.
Sorry, I sent you the wrong backup :( Please look at the one included here..
Platform should be 278,5-80-10=188,5cm
Middle of the platform should be 188,5/2=94,25cm.
So the trains should stop at 94,25+10+30 (or 80-40) =134,25cm from start of turnout #161.
I think that should be correct.
Loc 69 stops +5cm from middle. Or 139,25cm from start of turnout #161
Loc 50 stops +5cm from middle. Or 139,25cm from start of turnout #161
Loc 61 stops +13,6cm from middle. Or 147,85cm from start of turnout #161
Loc 52 stops +2,8cm from middle. Or 137,05cm from start of turnout #161
I cannot understand why. Can you ?
Best regards,
Per.
Hello again.
Any more hints/tips? I am stuck here...
Best regards,
Per.
Hello Per,
maybe someone running Marklin could help you here. I still think it's a problem of your loco and not a WDP problem. That's because only one of your locos has this problem and nobody else mentioned something similar. Which loco is it (# of article)?
Hi.
Well, one of them is extra wrong. I have chaanged to another loc-decoder, and will re-calibrate that one. But as you see, all of the others are around +5cm from the middle in the mentioned route at Strandby station. I have not calibrated in any other stations (yet).
Yes, it may well be a problem here, but I cannot find it !
At the calibrating station, all trains stop exactly as calibrated. In all other stations, that have an offset from the middle of the station. This is what I do not understand. If all is calibrated well, in a long station with long tracks, the should stop correctly at other stations, at least when I use around the same length of the IZNF track...?
Best regards,
Per.
I don't know if this will help, but I have one Marklin loco that would not give a consistent result during calibration. In the end, I had to clean the wheels (using a LUX 9305.7) and very lightly oil the gears. Since then, the loco now produces a clean calibration graph with 15 points..
Hello.
Thank you.
No, I do have very clean wheels (LUX cleaning-wagon for rail, and cleaning-device in the track for cleaning wheels, in addition I have cleaned everything by hand). So I have no problems with varying results, the results are always the same, but they are not the results I want/expect.
Thanks anyway !
Best regards,
Per.
Hello Per,
I think Markus should have a look on this for I don't have any ideas anymore. But this could take a while because currently he is very busy.
Hello Per,
Just a thought, did you check the amount of power you are receiving at the station you calibrated from and the other stations?
Are they the same? Do you have enough feeders to both red and brown in all stations?
It may be worth a shot.
Aloha,
Elliott
Hi guys,
beside the ideas of Stefan, Elliot and Adrian I don´t have much additional ideas at the moment.
Maybe Elliots idea might be a solution.
Another question from: How long is the distance from the real mid-position with the train first axle to the last feedback contact beginning before? Is there a significant difference between the good and the bad working tracks?
Regards
Markus
Hello Markus, Elliot, Stefan and others ;D
Conserning power: The entire layout is powered by 2x240VA trafos, devided into 6 circuits with seperate (identical) boosters. All outputs are identical in power. From each booster I use minimum 2,5mm(square) wires to all connecting-points for the tracks. From each connecting-point there are short wires with 0,6mm (dia) to the C-tracks. There are maximum 1m between each C-track that is fed with power. Both "red" and "brown" are fed to each point.
Markus, about the distances:
The "good" track is total 316,8cm IZNF. Devided into a total of 6 sections (wa originally designed for non-IZNF use..). The "bad" track is total 278,5cm IZNF. Devided into a total of 5 sections, with the second section with no feedback.
The distance from the start of feedback (if I understand you correctly) in the "bad" track is 79cm. In the "good" track it is 59cm.
I did try to include more feedback-tracks (to get the longer total distance) but the result is the same.
Best regards,
Per.
Hello Per,
Yesterday I had this problem, too. That was a new iZNF consisting only of two feedback contacts. Only one loco drove too far all other were fine. I started once again the speed measurement of this loco and found out that the maximum speed of this loco was 160 km/h after the first meassurement and now 250! No wonder the train went too far! Because the iZNF only exists of two contacts and the last one is very long WDP had no chance to interact. At all other iZNFs there are more contacts. Every time the loco reaches a new contact WDP recalculates the remaining way and reduces the speed much faster so the loco stops there more or less correctly. After the second speed measurement the loco stops fine at every iZNF!
Maybe you have the same problem.
Hello again.
Thanks for info.
Please read my last mail (again). I did write, quote:
"The "good" track is total 316,8cm IZNF. Devided into a total of 6 sections (was originally designed for non-IZNF use..). The "bad" track is total 278,5cm IZNF. Devided into a total of 5 sections, with the second section with no feedback."
unquote.
I have re-calibrated every loco several times, this is not the problem.
I have more-or-less given this up, and unwillingly accepted that this does not work as I expected/wanted. If it works with everybody else, it must be a problem here, but I cannot find it. So I am mostly using the non-IZNF way (as before) or IZNF with "Stop at signal", which works quite well.
Happy Easter (I am on holidays at my mother-in-laws place with my wife and 2 dogs).
Best regards,
Per.
Per,
I had the same problem when calibrating all my locs. At the end I found out that one of the isolators of the calibration track was one rail further then I had used in WDP, so one distance was too long, the other too short. So WDP was mislead for the calibration of the brakecorrection. So I could calibrate all the trains on the calibration track correctly but at other tracks the trains stopped too far. When I installed the isolation correctly the problem was gone.
So please check if your track isolations are correct.
Hope this can help
Luc