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Win-Digipet - international => Win-Digipet Forum English => Thema gestartet von: Per Olsen in 15. November 2013, 23:21:18

Titel: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Per Olsen in 15. November 2013, 23:21:18
Hello.

I have noticed several times that my Marklin TGV does not respond to some commands under WDP.  Sometimes it does not stop at station (continues past the signal at lowest speed, and will not stop), some times it does not reverse direction on command.  Today I was tired of this, and tried to find out what the problem is....

First I changed my controller from TAMS to Intellibox. I started to test the change of direction.  First I did it directly on the controller.  The direction changed correctly EVERY time.  Next I changed the direction with clicking on the direction-control in the small loco-window in WinDigiPet.  The problem showed up at once:  After just a few (1 to 6, mostly) direction-changes, the TGV did not respond.  It "skipped" one command.  Next command could be executed OK, and so on.

This is a problem I need to get solved.  I had some major crashes because the TGV did not change direction as it was supposed to.

I suspect it has something to do with the MFX decoder in the TGV.  By the way, my son has a Marklin Thalys, and the same problem is there.  Or maybe it has something to do with the setup in WDP, as it does work correctly when I use the controller manually.

In WDP I have set it up for MFX.  I also did try Motorola 2 27a/b, but the same there.

Any hints/tips/help?

Best regards,
Per.

Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Adrian L in 16. November 2013, 02:41:37
I have the Thalys.  It is not on my layout at the moment, but I do recall that the train does something before it moves off.  It should stop on a reverse command and then take a few seconds before it moves off again. 

I know that this works well, because my temporary layout is a shuttle service where the Thalys (and other railcar services like the Insider Donald Duck) travels from one end of the layout to the other. So, from my perspective the loco, eCos and WDP work fine in this way.
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Per Olsen in 16. November 2013, 08:36:50
Hello !

Thank you for your answer.  Well, in my case it does not change direction before moving off, so it goes in the wrong direction.  Only under WDP control.  When I control it directly with the controller, by hand, it always changes direction as it should.  I find it very strange.  Hope somebody has any idea.....  I think it has something to do with MFX, as I do not have this problem (it seems) with other (non-MFX) trains. 

I will continue exploring   :(

Best regards,
Per.
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Stefan Lersch in 16. November 2013, 11:17:49
Hi Per,


how did you enter the Thalys in WDP? As mfx or something different?


Have you enabled M3 in the Tams which equals mfx?


Which software version do you run on your Tams?
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Per Olsen in 16. November 2013, 11:51:25
Hello Stefan !

Answers:
As you can see in my first post: as MFX.
I am not using the TAMS right now, I am trying with the Intellibox (see my first post).  Set as Motorola 2.
Software of the Tams is the newest 1.46 (I think it is still the newest..)

I tested some more today.  When WDP is up and running, I can easy change direction ALWAYS with the controller itself.  It newer fails.  But when clicking on the direction-change on the Loko in the Lokleiste, it fails very often.  The symbol for the direction DOES change (from "up" to "down" or vice versa) but the TGV does not actualle change direction.  When I start it, it runs the wrong way, opposite whet the indicator in the Lokleiste shows.  And that is also what happens when running a Tour Automatic:  Sometimes it does not change direction, even if it says so in WDP.  So I have a crash....

Any good ideas/suggestions?

Best regards,
Per.

Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Stefan Lersch in 16. November 2013, 13:01:19
Hi Per,

the Intellibox doesn't support mfx! You have to set either Motorola 2 in WDP for the Thalys as you did in the Intellibox or change back to the Tams. But there you have to use M3 which is the same as mfx.
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Per Olsen in 16. November 2013, 15:19:02
Hi again.

As I said earlier, I DID try with Motorola in WDP and IB.  Same happened.

Per.
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Stefan Lersch in 16. November 2013, 20:28:39
Hello Per,

sorry, I misunderstood you twice. I have no experience with the IB nor with Motorola. But you can try a different Motorola type. Is it necessary to link the loco between WDP and the IB? If yes did you do so?

I would try it with M3 and the Tams.
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Per Olsen in 16. November 2013, 20:29:13
Hi again, Stefan.

Where is M3 in TAMS?  I checked, I found no M3 protocole in the TAMS.  I have version 1.4.6.  Where is it ?

Best regards,
Per.
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Stefan Lersch in 16. November 2013, 20:39:04
Hi Per,

M3 is the equivalent of Tams to mfx. It is there but disabled. You have to enable it first. (That's a so called easter egg because it's hidden.) I think you understand a little German? Have a look here: http://www.windigipet.de/foren/index.php?topic=69035.msg148785#msg148785

If you don't understand it let me know and I will translate it.
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Per Olsen in 16. November 2013, 20:47:57
Hi.

Why is it hidden?  Is there a risk involved?
I will try to read your link....

Regards,
Per
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Markus Herzog in 16. November 2013, 22:18:44
Hi Per,

Maerklin seems not to want others to implement MFX and Maerklin seems not to give anyone the required informations to do this. So I think the m3 stuff in den Tams MC is something like back-engineered. Maybe the most important argument for hidding might be, that it is inofficial feature for Tams, because if Maerklin would change MFX in the future in a radical way, the m3 stuff might not work any more with the MFX decoders of Maerklin.

By defining m3 as hidden inoffical feature no constumer can insist on this feature if Maerklin changes MFX and so on.

By the way, 1.4.6 is the current official release of the Tams firmware, but here you can find the beta 1.4.6m:
http://www.tams-online.de/htmls/SoftwareEasycontrol.html

Since 1.4.6 there have been made many enhancements in the Tams firmware and I know very many people using 1.4.6m, that I would suggest to install 1.4.6m.

Regards
Markus
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Per Olsen in 16. November 2013, 22:28:54
Thank you, Markus.

I found in "Handbuch_2012" in section 5.5.1 page 142 some interesting info.  So I did as it was described, I changed ALL MFX-locos in the database from MFX to Motorola 2 27b.  But the problem is still the same (on the IB, I wil try again with the TAMS tomorrow).

By the way, why is this section not in the English manual?

I will try to upgrade to 1.4.6m tomorrow.

Regards,
Per.
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Per Olsen in 17. November 2013, 08:51:33
Hi again.

Just to make one thing clear:  If I choose to NOT install M3 (MFX), should not all locos work perfect with Motorola 2 27b if all locos are set to this?  None set to MFX?  I mean, I know there will be only F0-F4 available, and not 128 speed-steps, but what else is there to loose? 

If the answer to this is that MM 2 27b should work ok, then I do have a problem.  As described before, the MFX locos work perfect when controlled from the TAMS manually (even with WDP running), but controlling from WDP is not perfect.  So I am still lost, what is the problem?

(By the way, is it MM2 27a or 27b I should use for MFX-locs?  I find both in different docs... What is the difference between a and b?)

Best regards,
Per.
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Markus Herzog in 17. November 2013, 13:04:27
Hello Per,

some points:

Regards
Markus
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Per Olsen in 17. November 2013, 18:15:39
Hello.

I downloaded 1.4.6m and upgraded the Tams.  Seems OK.  I will try to use M3, if I can understand how  :)

Regards,
Per.
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Per Olsen in 17. November 2013, 19:10:50
Hi again.

I enabled M3 as described.  Seemed to work OK. 

So I put my TGV on the programming track.  It has an old Motorola adress of 79.  I wanted to put in M3 adress 1079.

Update: I first made a new loco at adress 1079, and put in M3.  Seemed OK.

So I found M3 programming in the menu, and pressed Adress.
I typed in 1079.  After many seconds, the new M3 adress was confirmed.   :)

It took very long.... How long can I wait before the decoder is destroyed?

Next question:  Where do I program all the other parametres, like top-speed, braking etc?  In the M3-programming menu, I find only the Adress..?  Any tips?

Last question:  Now all my other MFX-locos are not running.  How can I now drive them to the programming-track to program them also for M3?

Best regards,
Per.
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Markus Herzog in 18. November 2013, 23:45:47
Hello Per,

1. i can give you no time until decoder destroying...my decoders are all still alive and for some of them the process lasted more tan 60 seconds.

2. Maybe the term m3 programming is a little bit wrong. It is more a kind on mfx address learning.... For other programming stuff as you mentioned a real mfx detector in the Tams would be necessary (which is not inside). So you need to program all other parameters using the Motorola programming method.

3. Just enter a non m3 address in the Tams, power the Tams off and on again. Then no m3 stuff is on the track and you should be able to drive the trains with Motorola, of course only until you call the next m3 address, then you will have to repeat the described procedure.

Regards
Markus
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Per Olsen in 19. November 2013, 21:55:45
Hallo Markus.

Thank you (again :)

I have now the TGV OK in MFX-mode controlled by the TAMS.  Seems to work fine.  To be clear: To program all the other parametres, I put it back in Motorola mode, and program they there?  And the changes will be valid also in MFX (M3) mode afterwards?

Best regards,
Per.

Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Markus Herzog in 20. November 2013, 23:49:28
Hello Per,

Correct.

Regards
Markus
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Per Olsen in 24. November 2013, 09:56:06
Hello Markus.

Thank you!  Always a pleasure to receive your help.  Thanks again.

Best regards,
Per.
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Per Olsen in 01. Dezember 2013, 20:44:35
Hello again.

Just one follow-up:

I have 2 locos that start running full speed some times, I guess they think they receive analoge signals.  I have been advised to disable this, so I changed the CV 29 to its value minus 4, I think this should diable analog mode.  But the same problem is still there with the same 2 locos.

Is there another way/parametre to disable analoge mode?  I would like to be able to use these 2 locos also... :)

Best regards,
Per.
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Stefan Lersch in 01. Dezember 2013, 21:48:50
Hi Per,

this is correct. Which decoders are these? I wonder if they "understand" CV29.
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Per Olsen in 02. Dezember 2013, 18:19:51
Hi.

One loco is Roco Hector Rail 182.531.  They have the normal CV29 in their manual.
The other is Hobby Trade NSB EL 13.2151 with sound.  I am not sure which decoder is in there, but it does have CV 29 so I can modify.  On both locos I removed 4 from the value of CV29.  But they still start to run on their own, like they think I am using analogue mode.....

What can I do?

Per.
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Stefan Lersch in 04. Dezember 2013, 23:02:18
Hello Per,

I don't find information which decoders these are. So the only thing I can suggest is to replace the decoders by well known and good decoders.
Titel: Re: I have a MFX/TGV problem, any help?
Beitrag von: Per Olsen in 05. Dezember 2013, 18:15:22
Hello.

Well, I might have to do just that.  Pity, they should work.  As a last resort, I will replace them.

Best regards,
Per.